We have enough violence in our society without teaching young men that to objectify women and sex is acceptable. I have a teenage son and even if I am quite liberal his father is not. There is balance in everything I suppose. We openly talk about everything and when he gets curious I suppose I will be the one buying the mag and discussion the issues raised.

How Supermom's husband's father handled the situation is for me by far the best. Watching a FHM image can be as much fun, but far less harmfull than a xxx sexual explicit hustler image. In life there needs to be boundaries in everything that we do, why exclude porn? Don't just let your kids openly surf porn, and don't ever force your son not to surf porn or ever watch over him. Parent's can only teach their children the right way, but they cannot enforce it. For all the people that's quoting bible versus again, it's in fact because of that God giving gift of sexual desire to love somebody that your son starts exploring and like everyhing in life you need to guide and help your son through this. Don't quote a verse from the bible that he will not inherit the Kingdom of God if he watches porn. Make him understand that you were also his age at some point in time, and that all boys and girls starts to explore the opposite sex, but that there is a limit to everything in life.

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It is sad to hear you arguing about porn, it is clear that it is not right especially for a child. It is not right amongst any man or women as porn bring distruction to any marriage and teaches child wrongfully. The word says in Galatians 5: 16-21 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, that you may not do the things that you desire. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

I would be more worried if a 15-year old boy WASN'T looking at porn.

I have a teenage son (16) and I leave him alone...For those moms who are so worried about their sons watching porn..stop worrying.

I have read some of the comments here and can assume 1) those people responding ' in a liberated fashion' are not parents or they are 'really liberated'. I guess to each their own. However, those of us helping our teenagers define an identity and start charting a path through life that is respectful and aspires to moral values, I understand the shock of stumbling upon porn in your house(because I have) and negotiating the minefiled of parenting mistakes dealing with this and other issues of teenagers. Tracey, thank you for your bravery to put your experience here for the world to judge as well as providing other parents like you with some tools of what to do when they find themselves in your situation. To those of us who like Tracey are striving to teach our teenage sons self-control and self-awareness, the world and its liberated citizens should not dictate to us how to raise our children. If we allow the 'liberated world' to dictate to us, we will continue to raise the type of society that we are fast becoming - morally bankrupt! By the way, one of the sunday papers had a true story of a sex addict young man who was exposed to porn and other things from an early age and who is desperately seeking a 'normal life'.

Although I grew up with 3 older brothers porn never was an issue in our household, perhaps my siblings had good hidey-holes! I have a 4 month old baby boy and do not know how I would handle the porn issue when it arises. I asked my husband if he ever had porn and he told me a story where his dad had found explicit material in his possession, his dad confiscated it gave him a magazine similar to an FHM and told him he could get his fun from there instead. I think this was quite good. Instead of hitting a teenager with a brick wall no, his dad gave him a more appropriate option. I do believe that pornographic material has age restrictions and so for my 15yr old to be surfing porn sites is an ABSOLUTE no no. He can do it when he's 18+ and not under my roof!!

I have two teen boys, and they are able to sniff out porn online like seasoned professionals. And I don't mind in the least. I know, also, that they're surfing sites about Michael Shumacher, black rhinos, Jacques Kallis, AK47s and teaching budgies to talk. As long as porn is but one of a number of interests, who cares? It's evidence that they're growing up and taking an interest in the stuff all adults are interested in. Well, maybe we're not all interested in teaching your budgie how to talk :)

Porn rocks!!!!!

@Norbert? Whoever said that "there is nothing wrong with being gay, it's only natural" has obviously not considered the fact that it is actually not natural for same sex people to bond sexually. I have had many close gay friends for many years. I dont judge them and I accept them fully as my friends, and everybody should be free to make their own choices in life. But you cant possibly say it is natural to be gay.

The latest browsers have a 'private browsing' option which leaves not traces. Knowing that will save you a lot of time trying inspecting the history for 'suspicious' websites on the computers he uses. Parental control? He and his mates know more about computers you could ever learn in your remaining life? Talk about living in a fantasy world!

Wow... This is special! You respect your sons privacy, but are now going to try hang around while he surfs the net??? Oh COME ON! What a joke... Just incase anyone hasn't noticed, there are PC's everywhere! If he can't access it at home, he can go to at a mates place or the internet cafe, or use his phone etc etc etc... The porn industry generates more income than the conventional movie industry. I'm appalled by how prudish you are! Maybe it has to do with having grown up when we were having all our media controlled by an overzealous governement or that you feel that porn is objectifying women? Whatever your reason, you can't project it onto your son. Your son is going to get hold of it, whether you like it or not. He is well aware that what happens in the films is NOT reality and the more you try to snoop, the more you'll alienate him and drive him to find access elsewhere. If this were my kid, I'd say something along the lines of I know you look for porn online, it's cool and enjoy but if you want to experiment in the real world, please ensure that you use protection and that you're doing it for the right reasons. Most people in RSA are so inhibited because we regard sex and porn as taboo... It's perfectly normal to want to explore your sexuality during your teenage years and well into your twenties and thirties (hopefully by then you have a good idea of what you like and have someone you can share that with). Generally, men are turned on by visual stimulti, women by touch and feelings. You son is trying to understand what he likes - good for him! As his mom, provide access to the right information about the subject and let him discover his own sexuality without adult supervision! One last thing - I suppose that you havne't noticed that "sex sells"... Listen to the Cell C women's voice, look at car shows with pretty little fluffs draping themselves on cars in short skirts, look at the hollywood celebrities, FHM magazine and the other mens lifestyles mags, the Cosmopolitan REGULAR sex specials... It's everywhere accept it and teach him about respect, protection and risks to him and to others.

Take it from an angle of a mother who is horrified by her child's behavior. You judgmental people, When you deal with children its different and its good that she implants to a 15 year old that porns are not the actual reality.... The mind of a 15 year old is still critical he is still a child's, whether he is experiencing with sex or not. What will happen now is that he will be sleeping with young girls his age and expect them to be porn stars. Porn gets real when you know your partner too well that you can freely experiment with it. Unless you are a sex craze, it goes with deeper levels of a relationship and partners advance first and start using porn. Back to the point. Yes as a mother you need to lay such rules. Whether he is gay or not cannot be determined by the porn videos at that age. He might still surf them from time to time, but just so your computer does not run a risk to crash, you need to install security that will block all unsolicited sites so he wont access them.

What I said was not intended to be homophobic at all. So for that one person who decided that it was a homophobic statement, don't get all defensive. All I'm saying is...I guess you can figure out now that he's not gay. That could be bad or good...whoever your talking to. I can care less. TO UNCLE...Your talking about how bad porn is and how when we go into porn sites, we should take "note of the pictures and wording and adverts for the websites next time" we are surfing. "These are not just showing some nudity as in the old day - the more hardcore the better for the most part." So basically you are looking at it too huh? Then you must be a bad influence too since you know so well what kind of material is in those sites. Hypocrite. Oh yea... porn is equivalent to drugs? Just get out of this site. Stick to the infomercials on TV buddy. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU MR HAWTHORNE.

When did spelling become optional, buy a dictionary people. There is nothing wrong with porn! Also the people who said that real world sex would not compare to what is depicted in porn must have a really crappy sex life. About the anti homosexuals, the Greek men were banging each other well before the birth of christ. It's nothing new. Personally I like gay people, means one more dude not chasing after the chicks. Sex is not always about love, it's about SEX. It's about satisfying our genetically built in drive to procreate.

"[t]he more teens sought out X-rated sites on the web, the more likely they were to view sex as ‘recreational’ – in other words, to think that love or even affection aren’t necessary for a sexual encounter." I don't think this is necessarily true. I mean the notion that 'recreational' sex is a sexual encounter devoid of love and affection. There are many married couples and partners in love with each other that have sex for recreation all the time.

Absolutely nothing wrong with rubbing one out - I speak from years of experience ! Porn is just useful for when I run out of the fantasies in my mind (ahhh, Kylie...)

The lady in the article shouldn't feel to aggrieved. My friends and I started watching Porn when we were 14. There was no internet in those days - we would steal our Fathers porn video's while they were at work, set up 2 video machines and record it onto our own video tapes, and before we knew it we had a roaring porn trade at school. Don't get me wrong, I'm saying it was right but it happened....

15 year olds, beware. If your mother finds porn on your PC they might not know how to handle it and write a blog about it. Poor little Mr. Hawthorne. Now everyone knows. How humiliating.

something must be done, who knows what will be next ????????

The is a correlation between Pornography and sexual abuse of children. To find out the fact visit http://www.stop.org.za/thecorrelation.htm From the site In a presentation at the Beijing Conference in 1992, Dr Catherine Itzin said, "It is noteworthy that governments in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have now acknowledged the links that have been established between pornography, sexual violence, child sex abuse and sexual inequality." In her paper (1992) "The Evidence of Pornography – Related Harm", she says: "There is evidence that through the making and use of pornography, women and children are harmed. This harm includes: sexual murder, rape, sexual assault, child sex abuse, sexual harassment, coercion in the making and use of pornography, sexual objectification, and contributing to sexual inequality and women's subordinate status."

You must be gay to react that way. Being gay is not natural - it's unnatural. Had it been natural, guys would be hammering guys and not girls and there wouldn't be any people around today. We we made to be a man an woman together, not two sicko's like you and your boyfriend.

And there you go and put your surname with your picture mom! Thats NOT GOOD. Dude - if you read this, don't worry, hope none of your friends figure out who u are - they'll give you hell :-). Parents sometimes worry too much, but we all go through that. Just don't get fantasy and reality confused. Look but realize that what u see is like a photoshopped Nissan GTR.

Agree with Norbit! At least he is straight. A real man eats, farts, drinks beer, womanises and creates something to fight about, thats what we are, thats how we were made. A gay person is the result of you woman forcing us to become something we are not, feminine. Please stop preaching whats right when in fact its wrong and perverted. Porn belittles woman and give men strange ideas of what sex is. Most woman cannot bend, squirm, suck or go all day and night with 50 men like the actresses in the porn movies. All you'll get is a frustrated sex life.

There is nothing natural about being gay. Whether you believe it was God or evolution that made two sexes, the fact remains: one sex has a penis, the other has a vagina. ALL laws of nature would imply that there is nothing natural about 2xmales having sex and there is definately nothing natural about 2xfemales having sex. (however arousing it may be, it is definately not natural)

Wow... a 15-year-old looking at porn. The horror!

leave the kid alone ... sheesh really is that bad he watches arb people getting busy? it is really quite amusing the extent that people especially girls freak out about guys checking out porn. If you dislike the idea of your kid checking out porn please go ahead and honestly tell them that they are going to be facing this casual sexuality a lot over their lifetime and how as a guy you will need to perform and know what is happening under the bonnet - cant wait for that conversation.

Like many are saying, porn will find a way. And in some cases, it may even be beneficial. HOWEVER ... What you need to realise and explain to your son (and daughter) are the dangers of porn. YES, dangers! Many men (and woman) are addicted to porn, with a similar mindset as a drug or alcohol addict. The porn is the merely the substance used to release “happy hormones”. After a while, much time and fantasy are given to porn – and before they know, their marriages, work, life, etc. suffer the consequences. Unfortunately, as with any other addiction, and diseases; people don’t believe that this “fun” can come at a cost. Do yourself a favour, and search “porn addiction” on google. It is scary. All you can really do are to teach your children, so give them as much information possible. Good Luck.

Poor kid is going to have sexual repression issues for a long, long time. Lady, you are no match for teenage male hormones. The BEST you can do is make him feel guilty while indulging, I assure you, that is not healthy. The media may have changed, but all boys his age will find what they want, one way or the other, and trust me, they want it. You have no hope here, and, luckily, nothing to fear. All men go through this. Let the boy be, you can only make things worse for him. What happens when you suppress a male's natural urges? Ask some child-molesting catholic priests.

Homophobic people like you just make me sick! I can't believe people are still making comments like that in this day and age. There is NOTHING wrong with being gay, it is PERFECTLY natural.

I reckon you may as well allow it. Besides love and affection are def not prerequisites for a sexual encounter. Personally I wish I had realised it sooner. Would have had more fun and tried more.

The flippant attitude of most post to porn here is quite shocking. Porn is as damaging to teenagers or anybody as any single drug out there. True most users will get bored of porn after a while, but the same can be said for coke ecstasy or weed. However, a significant portion of people will get adicted to the extent it warps their entire world view, with negative impact on there social life, job, and every facet of life. Just look at the ammount of websites and organisation out there dedicated to combating this scourge. Letting your teenager use the internet without any form of control is exactly the same as inviting the neighborhood drug dealer to live with you. While I agree all the blocks and checks in the world will not prevent somebody from accessing porn if they want to, a parents responsibility is to make it as difficult as possible to ensure that kids know why it is harmful. We do the same in every aspect of raising kids. And to all those who say that porn is not that harmful I suggest they take note of the pictures and wording and adverts for the websites next time they are surfing. These are not just showing some nudity as in the old day - the more hardcore the better for the most part. What would you do if you heard your children saying the type of things written on these sites?? Just because pron is so rampant these days doesn't mean we should ignore its consequence. Parents have a duty to protect and eductae their children correctly.

watching porn is like window shopping you can look but you can not buy

There are two (TV) series called Porn Vallay and Porn Week that gives an inside view of the industry and the performers but more importantly demystifies the idea that it is glamorous and / or real world related. It shows that it is an industry exploited by companies to make money and sell fake ideas. The series are not overly graphic (18) and one can not help but realise after watching them that they deglorify the industry and its godesses. Let me also ad that I am a open minded hetrosexual man that enjoys erotica, even porn, and I believe that the industry in the main are not exploiting women. The series however made me realise what I knew - porn has little or no relation to life, love and expectations. In short it shows that it's just another commodity aimed at generating a profit.

Ever heard of parental guidance? its specific settings you can change in order to block those unwanted "x" rated sites in you internet properties settings list. Or you can contact your service provider and let them block it from their? even a simple login password would suffice.

Hi, your concern seems legit if your son was five years old and the porn was being supplied to him by an shady uncle. He is fifteen and now you endow these typical catholic church values on the boy which will probably leave him feeling dirty, humiliated and I can guarantee you that just by writing this you have already made him the laughing stock of the town. Shame on you.

Madam, no woman will ever understand us men's fascination with porn ; how could you? You don't have a penis. The good news is your son is still very young so you still have ample opportunity to screw with his mind and make him feel like a pervert. And they do have visiting days in prisons you know. And don't worry yourself too much, you are not the only unfit mother in this country.

@Scared M0m Listen sweetie, your son spanks his monkey and your daughter will on-day do fellatio ... if she watches porn maybe she will do it properly (unlike you).

@Scared Mom I presume you are the VIRGIN MARY, bless my soul. You have a son and daughter that somehow were not concieved using FILTH. You are a hypocrite!

Look on the bright side...At least you now know he isn't gay.

Let me tell you that when I was 17, it was illegal to own or view this type of material, but it was easily obtainable from my school's playground. It was a top name school in this country. However, I know the other "children" at my school has already seen this material at the ages of 11 to 14. Unfortunately my experience shows not even the (apartheid) law at the best schools with the highest education could stop "children" looking at it, even when we had to sneak around with VHS tapes and magazines from Europe, so how can a free society do it now with the Internet. We all throw stones, and sure, I am now appossed to any type of porn, even a "love" scene in a normal movie makes me unhappy that humans can swoop so low, but I am throwing stones. Education is the only way, I wish my parents were not so shy to tell me about drugs, alcohol and sex. All they had to do was send me to a sex education class with someone else!

Your son watches porn and chokes the bishop. So does your husband, your brother, the guy at your gym, Steve from accounts, your GP and pretty much 95% of males with internet access. "My John will never do any such thing!" Wrong lady. He does. He's just not man enough to admit it. Go in peace.

Limiting his access on the computer. Good for you, now take away his cellphone and give him a phone with no colour screen nor any internet capability like gprs, 3g. Then make sure he doesn't watch e-tv at 00:00 on Saterdays. This will teach him that looking at porn is wrong and playing the fiddle is wrong, rather go seek a girl who is willing and able. Much better ne? I don't think so, all he will now do is sneak about behind your back and look for it else where. There are more than enough places to buy these kinds of books, and even more places to hide them from your mother. Rather talk to him about it and tell him your concerns, but let him look at it if he feels the need. Rather concern yourself with him not committing the actual deed at his age. And for Pete's sake, let the boy's father or male figure talk to him about sex, nothing more embarrassing than your mom telling about such things.

LOL ... all i can say.. i know some women that even watch porn.. nothing wrong with getting sassy and all heated up once in a while

I had to laugh at this article, cause at one stage I was shocked and thought it was just my son. Then I spoke to some male friends of mine and they all said to me that it is perfectly normal of them to do that. This all started happening after sex edu at school. They were made aware of it and now they want to go see for themselves. I even once walked in on him with his pants down, need I say more. I just turned around and walked away. I think I was more embarrassed than he was. I then asked my husband to have a chat to him about privacy. Never ever did I make a big deal out of it. Basically, I thought that after what they learned at school it was a good time to have "the talk" with him. Just to make sure he understands everything the way I think he should. I explained to him the dangerous, that he obviously know and also told him that it is something special and he shouldn't spoil it by not being responsible. I was very honest and open with him and he asked me all sorts of questions that I answered honestly and in the best way I could. I want him to feel comfortable for him to talk to me about sex at anytime. He understands that and always comes to me if he has question, well not "always" I'm sure. I'm just glad that I had this talk with him and that he feels comfortable talking to me about it. It's amazing how differently they respond when you rather educate than freak out. They actually hear you.

Get over it, just make sure he understands that he can pick up some pretty hectic computer viruses along the way... a nice lesson for later life when his is about to dip into a dangerous liason without protection. Boys will get their hands on whatever they want, rather teach him about consequence and respect in the real world so that his brain stays on track.

I'm not suprised at all by the article. but just to point out the obvious, children aren't as stupid as many parents make them out to be. Kids know the difference between reality and fiction, to say that they may not be able to discern between pornography and real life relationships is ridiculous (i see the same rhetoric amongst those who criticize violent video games and movies). second of all, most teenage boys have watched porn (some on a more regular basis than others, you should be worried if yours don't (and instead drew pictures of unicorns and dragons to establish his individuality). I watched porn, I played excessively violent video, I watched brutely violent movies, and you know what, I turned out fine (well not really, but thats because of my character), and you know what, most children end up fine too.

I don't think the real problem here is her son looking at porn but that she knows what "activity" accompanies that and that freaks a mother out. Look you will not / cannot stop this - all boys will do it if they can - and they will continue to do so until even viagra doesn't work. Some will do it more than others but every man will given the chance. If you aren't tempted you have a dysfunction. You should encourage your son to have healthy, safe sexual practices and not be hung up on what he is looking at on the PC - he is 100% normal.

There are simpler ways of preventing your kids from accessing porn at home on your PC, through the software already installed on your PC. But at the end of the day, if they are going to look at porn, they will find a way to do, either at home, on their phone, or elsewhere.

Taking all of this into consideration, any parents who are concerned about what websites their teens are visting should consider purchasing and installing McAfee's Family Protection. McAfee is a leading security vendor who provide Anti Virus and Internet Security for both home users and large corporate companies. I have Family Protection installed on my home PC and it allows me to block websites, search phrases as well as monitor and set up time limits for my teens internet access. You can even be notified if personal info is shared on social networking sites. This is a fantastic product that can be purchased through most leading IT reatilers for around R200.00

@YellowFlame - Jip that will do it. If not this article with your picture, name and surname can be linked directly to him. When word gets around at school you can be sure his porn surfing days are over.

@RifRaf - you are the kind of person who makes me scared!! Do you HONESTLY not see the PERVERSION involved in pornography?? I have a son and a daughter - BOTH of whom I am terrified will have access to this kind of filth and perversion. I truly hope you don't have kids - and never do!! "Open Minded" - what a sad person you are!!

Even Filters can be circumvented, unfortunately. Go to Google Images: Advanced Search, switch SafeSearch off, then enter something like Britney Spears in the text box. Blam!

This Ted talk was very good on this matter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV8n_E_6Tpc

"Point out to him, first and foremost, that the sex he sees on porn sites doesn’t correspond to what most adults experience in the bedroom" Then you're just not with the right partner!

Speaking as a young male adult here: Besides the explaining that its not what happens in the bedroom, and a reprimand for catching him, there is nothing else you can or should do, and that included worrying about it. Its not that it will get worse, but it is something that he will be drawn into, but eventually get bored of. just cause some one watches porn at a young age doesn't mean he will become some sex fiend or rapist.

That's just how it is, right, Brett? What about when your child grows up and meets someone who does not think porn is suitable for a relationship? Some men are like kids: they like to do "naughty things" they think their partners will never know about. Very mature indeed. And extremely conducive to a trusting relationship. Some men complain about women watching shows like Desperate Housewives etc and how it stereotypes their thinking about men. Meanwhile men (fully aware that the other man is in a relationship) send each other the most outrageous things by email. Strange.

Kids nowadays have it so easy - tons of porn at the click of a button. Getting hold of porn when i was in school was a rite of passage... You'd need either a mate with an older brother; or you'd have to wait til you were playing an away game (the last thing you want is to bump into one of the ladies from your mom's pottery class) to walk into a cafe and grab a shrink-wrapped copy of whatever with your can of coke. It's healthy and natural for raging adolescent hormones to be curious about sex... and porn is more easily accessible than willing girls at that age. But I also believe that porn does exist in the realm of fantasy and role play anyway and that the lessons you feel you need to teach your kid about intimacy and "real-life" sex are moot. The kid will learn that sex and love are nothing like porn once he/she's old enough to start dabbling in it. I think the real issue here might be the sweaty fapping that's probably happening all over your work pc... and that's fair. because it's gross. So say that to the kid then. But you are absolutely deluded if you think that a serious heart-to-heart is going to scare your kid off porn and nekkid girls... just ask tiger :) You're swimming against 160 000 years of evolution, heck even a 100 yrs ago, your teenager might have been a father himself... My point is that not all porn is bad, i learned a lot about pleasing women from porn. but there is some seriously hardcore stuff out there and maybe that's where you need to throw up your wall. Otherwise - everything in moderation.

QUOTE: <in other words, to think that love or even affection aren’t necessary for a sexual encounter.> Where the hell are u from - the dark ages ? Of course love and affection AREN'T necesssary for sexual encounters. I bet u believe that Adam and Eve existed also ...

I am a young man of 24 yrs, wen i was your sons age i used to access porn sites regulary from my cellphone almost everyday, until i grew older and responsible and little by little the enxiety of seeing naked chicks faded away. yello flame is ryt nowing that once ur parent nows wat uv bn up to can terrify u. u did a good thing by letting him no wat hes bn up 2.he be fyn .

If you have a son, then just maybe you know something about sex! It's here, and it's here to stay. UNlike the WWW, it's also not new. Create confusion about this, create doubts and uncertainties and you won't see much of the lad later in life. See yhe comment from RifRaf above

I am a young man of 24 yrs, wen i was your sons age i used to access porn sites regulary from my cellphone almost everyday, until i grew older and responsible and little by little the enxiety of seeing naked chicks faded away. yello flame is ryt nowing that once ur parent nows wat uv bn up to can terrify u. u did a good thing by letting him no wat hes bn up 2.he be fyn .

You havn't explained WHY you feel that your teen accessing porn is detremental to him? Does it make him cross-eyed, does he get hair on his palms? The only negative consequence is to do with atitudes to sex, and that is your responsibility to educate him with a healthy attitude to sex ... which for him might include recreational pornography. I suggest you resign yourself to the fact that this is a new worl ... very different from the one you grew up in ... and you need to equip your son to manage in this environment of free choice. I suggest you let him make his own choices, he will have access to porn from a variety of sources, just help him to make wise choices in how he uses it. ...and if you can't explain why porn is so bad, maybe you have some thinking to do and your son is the open-minded product of a new generation?

I think a chastity belt is in the order for this young man! Failing that, print out the web page and stick it on the wall next to the computer with a message that this is the kind of websites he visits!

TRUST ME - letting your son know that you know that he was surfing porn is enough to scare the living heebee jeebees out of him and he won't ever do it again.. well, not on your pc anyway. :P

Ja, the reality of this is that almost every single young male, nowadays, has accessed porn. I'd go as far as to say that around 80% will keep doing so on some kind of recurring basis. That's just how it is.